'I cost them 16% of the annual HOA income': HOA and Karen neighbor dare homeowner to stop their enforcement of petty rules, they do

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Brad Dickson • Managing Editor
Jul 7, 2023 9:00 AM EDT

Neighborhood disputes have been raging over boundary lines for eons and over parking disputes for at least several generations, but recent advancements in technology, making cameras readily available for lower prices, have given us a new thing to feud over.

We're decidedly on the fence on this one. While HOAs and their Karen board members can be insufferable and become one of the final bosses of suburban life—let's go back and take a look at the start of this issue. The neighbor didn't want a camera pointed into their backyard, and it's easy to reason that they are entitled to feel that way. Grey zones or not, if your camera is pointed into the threshold of most people's backyard… you're not going to have that camera for very long. 

What follows, though, is a story of this arrogant HOA board's hubris leading to their own poetic downfall, which generated a mostly positive result on the Reddit community where it was originally shared.

Read on for this story, which was shared on Reddit's r/MaliciousCompliance subreddit. Next, see this HOA that unjustly towed a car and faced endless parking applications. 

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  • 01
    Cloud - "I cost them 16% of the annual HOA income."
    via Paul Kapischka
  • 02
    Font - HOA tried to punish us - Told us to "Stop them if we can" - Malicious compliance cost them 16% of the annual HOA income - And the cameras are still installed today LOC This happened several years ago, and is a multi-year long story - I'll keep it as succinct as possible. We installed cameras in front of our home that were looking at our vehicles. Part of the camera angles did overlook parts of two neighbor's properties (one back yard and one side yard). The cameras were battery operated a
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 03
    Font - The neighbors' entire properties and several bushes on our property were grayed out - we did this when installing them. One of the neighbors was a friend - and had no issues with this whatsoever (we showed her the camera angle - and she said she didn't care whether or not we grayed out that area - we still left it grayed out over battery life concerns).
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 04
    Font - The other neighbor's name was Karen (not really, but we all know why I chose that name). Karen was on the HOA board and, as you can imagine, we didn't get along with Karen or the HOA Board. We told Karen about the camera and showed her the grayed out areas at the same time that we told our friendly neighbor about it. It was simply an FYI conversation (we are not on friendly terms) - not an "asking permission" conversation. She told us to take the cameras down immediately or we would regre
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 05
    Font - We responded with a letter detailing how we were not violating any bylaws or laws in general - and asked them to cease and desist. We all know how these stories go though. They did not cease. And they did not desist. Their first response? "The HOA has the right to enforce these bylaws. Try to stop us, if you think you can." (These types of responses were, unfortunately, quite common from this board.)
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 06
    Font - We entered this battle with one goal in mind: to cost them as much money and time as possible. The HOA hired a lawyer specifically to fight us. To my knowledge, this has not happened to any other residents. In the following 4 months we ended up costing the HOA over $4,000 in lawyers fees fighting this battle. For reference, the entire HOA income was ~$25,000/year.
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 07
    Font - When it came time for our official HOA hearing over the matter, we had successfully postponed it (thanks to an attorney friend) 3 separate times. There were over 100 back and forth emails with the HOA attorney and ourselves. Each one of those emails was a 15 minute expense for the HOA. And I was happy to follow up a follow up question with another follow up question if it meant the HOA attorney was going to keep billing them (Did I say "follow up" enough times?).
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 08
    Font - We didn't actually want to take this battle to court, so we ended up removing the cameras the day of the hearing (to prevent being fined - even if the fine wouldn't hold up in court). The HOA decided in the hearing that we were guilty (surprise, surprise) of violating the bylaw. They couldn't fine us - as the bylaws don't allow a fine until after a hearing has been held - and the cameras were already removed.
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 09
    Font - In the end, the punishment was a sternly written piece of paper on the attorney's letterhead (delivered via certified mail) that stated that we were "...not allowed to place a camera on our home that had the potential to invade a neighbor's privacy." Keep in mind, the letter specifically stated the camera could not be placed "on our home."
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 10
    Font - We left the cameras off of the home for about 4 months - until the annual HOA meeting. You should have seen the look on the HOA Board's faces when I asked them to explain the $4,000 line item for attorney's fees that simply stated "Title searches - Attorney fees."
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 11
    Font - The Board actually tried to hide the fact that they spent $4k trying to fight us over a couple of cameras by putting the fees in as "Title searches." Needless to say, that meeting did not go well for them. About half of them lost their positions on the Board. The other half (including Karen, unfortunately) remained on the Board.
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 12
    Font - About a week after the annual meeting, we installed new cameras - facing the same direction as the prior cameras - only this time, we installed a post in the ground and mounted the cameras to that post. The admonishment we received after the hearing specifically stated that we were not allowed to install cameras "on our home" - and said nothing about putting them on a post.
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 13
    Font - They did send a letter to try to tell us to remove the cameras, but a sternly worded response indicating that we were prepared to fight them actually worked this time around. I guess they didn't want to spend another $4k fighting us. We didn't receive any follow up responses. And the cameras on the post are still installed to this day (over 2 years and running strong).
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 14
    Font - Thameus Those are some pretty amateur bylaws if you can get away with installing unauthorized posts on your property. 560 Orleanian Reply Share ●●● I immediately asked myself - who authorized digging? 155 I suppose they could just have a christmas-tree stand out there or something, but you've usually got to obtain municipal authority to go post-diggin. Reply Share
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 15
    Font - Open-Attention-8286 Wonder what it would have cost them if you had also charged Karen with being a nuisance? She certainly sounds like one. 1.2k Wasabicannon Reply Share Thats the part that makes no sense. "nuisance to your neighbors" could they not throw that right back into the karen's face. She was being a nuisance to them first. 372 Reply Share
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 16
    Font - justanawkwardguy I think if you got something along the lines of "go ahead and try to stop us" in a situation like this you'd have fair ground for a harassment lawsuit against the hoa board, which is technically separate from the hoa as they're individually responsible Reply Share 787
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 17
    Font - TadGarish When you said they did not cease, I was like, "OK, but then I know they desisted." Man, did I read Karen wrong! 146 fishling Reply Share 23 I was on the middle-front portion of my chair at that point too! Figuratively. ●●● Reply Share
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 18
    Font - Parking-Fix-8143 +2 It's unfortunate that their stubbornness & hubris cost the rest of the HOA $4,000. And another thing I've noticed about such Karens: They don't think the rules apply to them, but they are wonderfully happy to use the rules as a cudgel against others. 282 Reply Share ...
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 19
    Font - Haunting-Pie1120 I totally get where you're coming from but I'm on the other side of the problem. My neighbors have a camera pointing directly in our backyard facing the our patio furniture where my wife sun bathes (in a bathing suite). I 100% get the need for cameras (we have them too!), but it's unsettling feeling with their point blank direction. I've not asked the neighbors to re-point them yet and certainly wouldn't go through the HOA, but it still feels like we're being watched 24/7
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 20
    Font - [deleted] Fuck HOAs but if my neighbour put up a camera facing my backyard even if they said it was greyed out, I wouldn't be able to enjoy my backyard anymore 130 Reply Share
    via u/FirstContribution236
  • 21
    Font - _awesumpossum_ Screw HOAs. It's literally just busybody Karens with nothing better to do. 302 Reply Share ULTRA_TLC +1. Most of them, yes. 74 Reply Share ●●● ●●●
    via u/FirstContribution236

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karens hoa neighbors neighborhood homeowner neighborhood-drama bad neighbors home owners Bad Neighbor karen neighbor
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